Filed under: Car Buying, Gadgets, Maintenance, Trends
OnStar: Good news for GM
OnStar, the wholly-owned subsidiary of automaker General
Motors, has announced that it grew to nearly four million subscribers in 2005, a thirty percent increase from 2004. And
with surveys showing over seventy-five percent of current subscribers would want the service in their next vehicle and
nearly ninety percent would recommend it to others, the company is looking forward to 2006. "The growth of OnStar is due in large part to our ability to bring to market relevant technologies that meet customers' evolving needs," said Chet Huber, OnStar president. "We've established a strong technology foundation, which serve as the building blocks for future offerings. What began with core safety features such as roadside assistance, emergency services and route support, continues to expand with new offerings and features like Advanced Automatic Crash Notification (AACN), hands-free calling, and OnStar vehicle diagnostics.”
OnStar Vehicle Diagnostics (OVD), which the company rolled out in September, performs routine electronic checkups on the vehicle and sends a monthly report to the owner.
GM plans to have OnStar installed on all its vehicles by the end of 2007.
[Source: OnStar/GM]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
BR 2:50PM (12/28/2005)
Can someone tell what the point of Onstar is other than unlocking your doors if your keys are locked inside? I'm always amused by the "peace of mind" radio ads of recorded emergency phone calls to an Onstar rep who simply places a call to 911 on behalf of the customer. If someone has this service and is involved in an accident, why don't they just call 911 directly instead of wasting those extra few moments talking to an Onstar rep? With e911, can't they figure out where you are located within 100 meters when you call 911 from a cellphone? If I'm missing some features or benefits that Onstar has, please educate me because honestly I haven't researched the service since I'm not currently in the market for a new car.
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Lithous 2:57PM (12/28/2005)
BMW advertises as if they have the only car in the world capable of calling you up and telling you your diagnostics.
B.S. an under $20K Saturn VUE (all VUEs have OnStar standard) can do it and they do email the diagnostics to you. An OnStar rep could easily get on your OnStar and read the results. It is basically not true what BMW is advertising.
Toyota advertises rain sensing wipers which were on the Envoy since 2002 and I think it was available before that on other GM cars.
GM needs to do their marketing better. For some reason things GM has arleady done seem important enough for the imports to advertise and GM doesn't think about it so they look like they don't have anything neat like the imports.
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cowboy bob 3:13PM (12/28/2005)
You might think twice about this. This system can, and does, keep a record of ALL your driving. It records speeds, g-force in cornering, brakeing, and can provide a map of your travels with tracking of times, and locations. It also can eavesdrop on conversations inside the car at any time without the occupants permission, or knowledge. I personally have heard tapes of conversations of people in autos used in suspected drug transactions, and have seen the re-creation of routes and times for travel. This IS a fact. I was part of an investigation by law enforcement and listened to the tape. (I was one of the "good guys"). The abilities of this system go far beyond what is released to the public. They tell you they can unlock your car for you if you lock the keys inside. They can detect when you have a collision, and direct the police to your position. They can have a conversation with you in the car. What they don't tell you is that they also have the ability and software to lock you out, make your engine in-operable, stop or or slow your speed and many other things that they "currently don't monitor". Big brother doesn't get much larger than this. I will never buy an auto from ANY manufacturer that has these abilities.
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Lithous 3:14PM (12/28/2005)
OnStar is super. Locking your keys in your car and them unlocking is great. What if you are in an accident and your cell phone is in your pocket or in the console and you can't get to it because your accident was pretty bad and the jaws of life are needed? Maybe the other car did a hit and run and doesn't make the call or you pass out from diabetic shock and hit a tree and can't make the call. When the airbags deploy OnStar is notified. And they talk to you. If your car is stolen then it is like having LoJack already built in as well.
Now you get vehicle diagnostics emailed to you ever month.
Add hands free phone capabilities for safer driving and they use Verizon which claims to have the best network. Not to mention you can share minutes with Verizon plans on your newer OnStar systems.
Then you upgrade and you can get directions and connections. You can call as many times as needed to get where you need to go and it will record the directions locally as well. You can just do the upgrade for a month (or shorter or longer) as we did when house searching. Instead of buying a GPS for $1000 with maps possibly out of date or incorrect (OnStar can be incorrect but call be and tell them and then they can go to a different resource to get better directions). Again, GPS for one month or two months out of the year for $17 a month more (upgrade) is better than $1000 for GPS you need a short period.
Again, GM needs to advertise better.
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Richard Warren 3:22PM (12/28/2005)
#3 Be afraid, very afraid! You don't think any other cars have the way to track this? Nearly every maker has the ability to pull more information off the current computers than many think.
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Team ZR-1 3:23PM (12/28/2005)
It should be known that On-Star ( or devices like it) may not only spy on you but also be used for others to not only track you, query the engine management to see if it complies to EPA, prevent engine from starting or commanding some of the injectors off to slow or stop car.
If not today then in future as all types of new business see a market on this, including states for tracking your speed, if license plates were paid for to who owns the load on the car if you have not made payments so to me any device that can talk to your car is nothing I would want.
Billygates of Microsoft also wants to control the OS of controllers used in cars of today so lots of wireless products will be seen in cars in next few years.
I heard GM has been testing for years in states like Ca that use transponders in roads to track car's speeds by querying engine management via wireless, are you using seat belts, etc to even remote smog testing by simply querying the onboard EPA tests.
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BF 3:26PM (12/28/2005)
BR, Post #1.
Okay here you go:
1. Door unlock.
2. Vehicle theft tracking.
3. Vehicle service reminders and recall info.
4. Hands free calling, voice activated.
5. If your airbags deploy, Onstar is alerted and sends police EMS, even if the driver is knocked out and unable to communicate.
6. ONstar Premium offers driving directions, reservation services and trip planning services.
7. If the check engine light comes on ONstar can tell you what the problem is and if it is safe to continue to run the car.
8. Yes many places have e-911, but many parts of the country, especially out west are dead zones for cell phones. OnStar service runs on a more powerful signal and uses satelite/GPS technology so if you wreck on that desert road and your cell phone is dead, OnStar is still able to get through.
9. Think about this. You are just in a car crash. You are shaking and scared. Would you rather just push the blue botton, or would you rather search for a cell phone and punch in NUMBERS?
10. Think about this. You are driving cross country and all of a sudden you are short of breathe. You are not 100% sure where you are, you have no idea where the closest hospital is....perhaps you are having a heart attack, would you rather search for you phone and try to explain where you are with a 911 dispatcher, or would you rather push the blue button, have the dispatcher have an exact location and have a friendly voice on the other line offer comfort.
11. Your wife is driving and she has just had someone try to car jack her. Would you rather her look in her purse for her phone or would you rather her get the hell out of dodge and pay attention to the road, just having to alert police by pushing one easily reachable OnStar button?
As you can see, I am very big supporter of OnStar. Outside of the many, many safety advantages of OnStar, I really enjoyed the premium travel services on my recent road trip to Florida. I called to find out about lodging off of I-95. Resturants off the interstate and gas station prices miles a head of my location so I could plan my fuel stops and get the lowest prices.
I have also used OnStar to get movie tickets and diner reservations.
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Lithous 3:30PM (12/28/2005)
#3 I agree. If you are tending toward criminal activities you might not want OnStar. I have had in every vehicle since 2002 and no one has arrested me yet.
They can and probably do watch your
email and Internet activity at work. Could record your conversations at work as well. I think you should stop workiing. If law enforcement knew enough info about which car your drove they could probably bug it
without OnStar. #3 use a fake name when you buy OnStar. I have heard the arguement against it before. BTW, your hard drive is coded with a number and your Windows version. Everything you do can be
tracked.
Great idea, let's get Osama to buy an OnStar
vehicle and he's as good as caught.
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BR 3:31PM (12/28/2005)
Lithous, thanks for the rundown. I agree, GM definitely needs to advertise better. I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about cars as well as gadgetry, but I had no idea about the vehicle diagnostics, verizon shared minutes, directions (not to mention that they are recorded locally), etc. I always thought Onstar was for unlocking your doors and calling 911 and that's pretty much it because all I see/hear is the "peace of mind" schtick.
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BF 3:39PM (12/28/2005)
Cowboy Bob: I have heard all of these "Big Brother" uses before. OnStar addresses all of these issues in the service agreement and your fears are very overstated.
I am sure in the law enforcement incident you report, ONStar was served with a warrant, and my understanding is that a warrant is generally issued by a court after evidence of wrong doing or potential wrong doing is presented to the judge.
Most cars today have computers that are able to keep a "black box" record of speeds and other data that "COULD" have other uses then those intended by the car maker. One could argue that insurance companies and police use the data for accident reconstruction.
Ever heard of EZPASS to pay your tolls with....that thing can track you movements and even calculate your speed....perhaps the police could send you a ticket.
The fact of the matter is these things DON"T happen, because if they did, the abuse of the technology would put the car computers, ONStar and EZPASS out of business.
CowBoy, anybody looking at this Blog could be watched...you might want to get off the net now too.
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OldCarDog 3:54PM (12/28/2005)
Conspiracy theories aside, there is much more good about Onstar than potential bad for the average customer. I've had two customers that benefited by the 911 airbag deployment call. They were both incapable of making the call themselves. The growth numbers reported are a bit misleading, however, when you consider how many vehicles come with Onstar and the one year subscription standard...Not a customer driven decision.
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Joe Berkley 4:02PM (12/28/2005)
For those who want the benefits of OnStar, you can pay the monthly subscription price. It's just not worth it for me, that's why we have choice. Lithous, I hope you're not a GM apologist who feels they make these great cars that everyone should be buying but they just aren't marketed well.
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cowboy bob 4:25PM (12/28/2005)
BF@POST #9- I am in law enforcement. There are presently no laws in place to prevent use of information obtained thru the ON-STAR equipment. Wiretapping laws do not apply. In the contract agreement you specifically give permission for the collection of "data", which can be distributed by the provider. They are watching, listening, collecting, controlling, and prepairing. Have a nice day.
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Lee Gibson 4:42PM (12/28/2005)
I wouldn't buy a GM car with OnStar unless I could personally remove the transciever before paying for the car.
Sorry, I just don't trust them. Yes, I have the same concern with toll tags.
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Jeff Gilleran 4:56PM (12/28/2005)
I think GM should give you Onstar for free if you buy a new vehicle from them.
If you sell the vehicle it goes to a subscription basis for the next owner.
Although Im against the "Big brother" gains in power, knowing that you have the Onstar feature isnt all that bad when something comes about where it actually becomes useful.
I usually use a cell phone, but it doesnt have accident signaling (if Im knocked out in an accident), and if someone steals my cell I cant track my phone, or the car if I left in in my vehicle.
Back in early 1990, I came up with what is now known as "Lo-jack".
It was a much better design with less cost in that you didnt have to buy a whole alarm system and it could be used on ANYTHING.. not just cars and trucks.
It was meant as a deal to work with the police department and using sattelite tracking.
One call.. and the cops were banging the door down of the dorks that stole your "stuff".
Problem was, Its very expensive to get a patent, and I didnt have the dough to do it. :(
Oh well.
This was 4 years before cellphones "began" to be popular or even really useful in size and design.
Onstar to me, might be a little much ONLY if they are tracking my driving habits, and its not activated by "an accident" or me making a call to them for some other emergency.
Im not sure if they are stomping on anyones civil liberties or not, but I dont like how Onstar is just a GM exclusive system.
I think they should branch off and cover those people who want it but dont want to buy a GM to get it.
Of course, have hard written laws on privacy and control of personal information needs to kept in check.
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Croak 4:59PM (12/28/2005)
#2/Cowboy Bob, are you aware that BMW's service is actually provided by OnStar?
And Buick and Caddy had rain-sensing wipers in the 90's.
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Mick 6:03PM (12/28/2005)
The Gov't would never monitor your communications without a warrant. There are rules against that; just ask the NSA. Er, on second thought ...
And just where do you think these posts go after you've written them? Into the bit bucket? Don't bet on it. There's no free lunch, and that includes lunch on the web. Whatever the web may have been intended to be originally, it is now a massive, money-spinning, commercial enterprise. Read the article; Chet Huber's got all kinds of commercial plans for OnStar. Free enterprise they call it.
Why add OnStar to your files when everything you write on the web is already recorded and archived. Ever buy anything on-line and forget to pay your state the sales tax for the transaction? States are losing billions in revenue because of the web, and they're not happy about it; not one bit. Now you've got the tax man - the world's most powerful individual - looking into your affairs. As far as the states are concerned, tax dodgers are worse than terrorists. Did you happen to use Gmail to tell someone you've got an illness? You'd better believe your insurance company wants to know about it, too, preferably before you file a claim (after all, they have to have time to drop you.) GOOGLE knows more about you than your own mother ever did. Ever say something you later regretted? If you wrote it on the web it's still there ... forever. And just imagine this: what if you said in the "privacy" of your car that you had a bomb, or that you would like to put a bullet between the eyes of one of our politicians. You are now faced with being charged with making terroristic threats in your own car! When the FBI investigates a possible crime they leave no stone unturned. Do you think they're not going check OnStar for anyone talking about bombs and bullets? Sure, some laws may protect your privacy now, but the same laws that have been made can just as easily be unmade. Just remember that Congressman from California who was indicted earlier this month for taking bribes. Think his type is going to look out for you? His motto seemed to be: "Show me the money!"
Is this all paranoia and wierdness? I don't THINK so. A few years ago Amazon.com was caught displaying HIGHER prices to customers it had records on than to those who seemed to be new customers. The company figured that regular customers were probably going to buy anyway, so why not charge them more, whereas the company needed to keep prices lower for seemingly new customers! (Which is another reason never to "logon" to a site just to browse. Your every movement around the site will be logged to your name. Just go browse around without logging on, and immediately delete any "cookies" that the site had put into your computer.)
But back to cars. Would you be surprised if your spouse's divorce lawyer pulls up a GPS record -legally obtained, no doubt - showing your car parked in Lover's Lane late some night, a night when your spouse is home in bed! So why's your car stationary in Lover's Lane. After all, OnStar doesn't lie.
Perhaps some of you frequently do break down in the desert (!) and need a space-based tracking device such as OnStar to get you out of trouble. Or maybe it's just a matter of GM vehicle owners needing OnStar more than the rest of us. But you sign away your privacy at your peril.
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cowboy bob 7:46PM (12/28/2005)
Mick @ post 17- You sound a little paranoid. Just because they can spy on you, supply evidence against you in an accident, watch your every move, record your conversations, monitor your movements, and know everything you are doing doesn't mean they are out to get you. They are just concerned for your welfare. After all, giving up every private moment because you can now stupidly lock your keys in the car with impunity seems worth it doesn't it? Yea, you get it. The rest of these people? I don't think so.
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Car-la 7:15AM (12/29/2005)
"GM plans to have OnStar installed on all its vehicles by the end of 2007."
Ever wondered why they have 4 Mio subscribers? This is why. If you put it in all your new vehicles for free upon purchase, it's now achievment to reach that many subscribers if you are GM.
In regards to #3: I'm more concerned about the daily technical gremlins of today's cars, than some government agency spying on me. But then I don't know if the service provided is worth the money anyway. I'm doing quite well without OnStar so far (*knocks on wood three times*)
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Jeff Gilleran 3:53PM (12/29/2005)
I agree.
If reliablity of the vehicle you are driving is suspect, having Onstar is both a curse and a blessing at the same time.
Id rather just not have the car or truck altogether.
Thats partly why I made my post earlier about Onstar being able to work on anything and installed in any vehicle not just being "exclusive" to only GM vehicles.
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